May 21, 2024

Episode Notes

About Marie Lee

Marie Lee is an esteemed music educator known for her innovative approach to group teaching. She is the creator of the Group Teaching Blueprint, a comprehensive resource for music teachers looking to implement or enhance group instruction in their studios. Marie also co-produces the Group Illuminated Online Conference, an annual event that brings together leading educators to share the latest trends and best practices in group piano teaching. As the owner of Musicality Schools in Las Vegas and the current Nevada Music Teachers Association President, Marie maintains a vibrant studio of 140 students.

Her dedication to fostering community and student engagement has made her a sought-after speaker at conferences such as MTNA, NCKP, and MusicEdConnect. Marie's insights and strategies are invaluable for any music teacher aiming to improve student retention and create a dynamic learning environment.

Why is Student Retention Important?

Student retention is vital for music teachers for several reasons. Marie explains that onboarding a new student involves considerable time and effort, from initial conversations with parents to setting up lessons and materials. Retaining students allows teachers to focus more on teaching and nurturing existing students rather than constantly marketing and onboarding new ones.

Benefits of Student Retention:

• Time Efficiency: Less time spent on onboarding new students allows for more time dedicated to teaching.
• Consistency: Students who stay longer become more consistent and progress faster.
• Community Building: Long-term students contribute to a stable, cohesive studio environment.

Strategies for Increasing Student Retention

Marie emphasizes the importance of creating a sense of community within the studio. She believes that group teaching plays a significant role in retention. By involving students in group activities, they form bonds and feel part of a team, which increases their commitment to lessons.

Performance Opportunities

One effective strategy is to offer regular performance opportunities. These not only give students goals to work towards but also provide them with a sense of achievement and belonging.

Types of Performance Opportunities:

• Monthly Performance Classes: Students play for each other and participate in theory games.
• Senior Home Recitals: Performing for the elderly during summer to bring joy and practice performance skills.
• Local Association Events: Participating in events organized by music associations such as MTNA.

Community Building Events

Marie’s studio also focuses on community service opportunities such as the “Bringing Smiles Tour” where students perform at nursing homes during the summer. This not only keeps students engaged during the break but also teaches them the value of sharing their musical talents with others.

Community Building Activities:

• Bringing Smiles Tour: Summer performances at nursing homes.
• Music Festivals: Participating in festivals like the National Federation of Music Clubs.
• In-Studio Events: Regular in-studio events to foster community and engagement.

The Role of Technology

Marie is a strong advocate for integrating technology into music education. She suggests starting with one or two apps that can help with sight-reading or note recognition. Using technology can make lessons more interactive and engaging, keeping students interested and motivated.

Recommended Apps:

• Theory Apps: For improving sight-reading skills and music theory knowledge.
• Interactive Platforms: Platforms like Practice Space and Flip for communication and assignments.

The Piano Parent Crash Course

Marie introduced a four-week crash course for piano parents to help them understand the basics of piano playing. This course not only empowers parents to support their children’s practice at home but also fosters a deeper connection between the parents and the studio.

Key Components of the Crash Course:

• Keyboard Geography: Learning the layout of the piano keys.
• Basic Rhythms: Understanding basic rhythmic patterns.
• Finger Numbers: Familiarizing with finger numbering.
• Beginner Staff Note Reading: Introduction to reading notes on the staff.
• Basic Chording: Simple chord patterns to play along with students.

Teaching Assistants

In her group classes, Marie employs older students as teaching assistants. This not only helps manage large groups but also provides leadership opportunities for advanced students. These assistants gain valuable experience and often stay longer in the studio due to their added responsibilities.

Benefits of Teaching Assistants:

• Classroom Management: Assisting with large groups.
• Leadership Skills: Providing leadership opportunities for advanced students.
• Retention Tool: Encouraging older students to stay engaged through responsibilities.

Products and Resources Shared

Marie and the hosts discussed several valuable products and pages that can help music teachers enhance their studios and improve student retention.

Group Teaching Blueprint

Marie’s Group Teaching Blueprint is an essential resource for any music teacher looking to transition to or improve their group teaching methods. It provides detailed strategies, lesson plans, and tips for successful group teaching.

Learn more about the Group Teaching Blueprint here.

Group Illuminated Online Conference

This annual conference co-produced by Marie focuses on the latest trends and best practices in group music teaching. It features presentations from leading educators and offers a wealth of resources for teachers at all levels.

Register for the Group Illuminated Online Conference here. Use code MARIE50 for $50 off

30 Piece Challenge

Created by Elissa Milne. Challenging students to learn 30 pieces during the school year helps students learn more pieces; it exposes them to different types of music; and it helps their sight-reading just by being given more opportunities to sight-read! Students want to “finish” pieces and this is a way to give them the momentum to do so.

30 Piece Challenge

National Federation of Music Clubs Festivals

Marie’s studio participates in the National Federation of Music Clubs festivals, which offer students performance opportunities and goals to work towards. These festivals are an excellent way to motivate students and build a sense of community.

Explore the National Federation of Music Clubs Festivals here.

Practice Space

Practice Space is an app that helps students stay organized and engaged with their practice. It allows for communication between students and teachers, sharing of practice videos, and provides a platform for motivation through peer interaction.

Discover Practice Space here. Use code: ML50 for 50% off the first 2 months after the free trial

Flip

Flip is a free app that enables teachers to create private groups where students can submit videos, interact with each other, and receive feedback. It’s a great tool for maintaining student engagement and providing peer support.

Check out Flip here.

Conclusion

Creating a vibrant, engaging studio environment is key to retaining students. By offering group activities, performance opportunities, and integrating technology, music teachers can build a strong, committed student base. Marie’s insights provide a valuable framework for any music teacher looking to improve student retention. Tune in to the full episode for more in-depth discussions and practical tips from Marie Lee. Happy teaching!

Episode Transcript

Show Transcript Jacqueline: Hi and welcome back to another episode of the Piano Pedagogy Podcast. My name is Jacqueline Beckoff, and I'm the owner of High Desert Piano and Defined Music Teacher. With me, as always, is Arianne Lakra, who owns Whittier Family Music School in Southern California.

Jacqueline: We are excited to have Marie Lee with us today. Marie Lee is the creator of the popular Group Teaching Blueprint, co-producer of the Group Illuminated Online Conference, and the owner of Musicality Schools in Las Vegas.

Jacqueline: Not only does Marie maintain a group studio of 140 students and mentor other music teachers, she presents at conferences including MTNA, NCKP, Music Ed Connect, 88 Creative Keys, and other state music teacher conferences. On top of all that, she's also the current Nevada Music Teachers Association President. Where do you find all the time for that, Marie?

Marie: I don't. And I knew you were gonna ask that. I don't have a good answer for you because, like most music teachers, we are so involved in creating better communities, creating exciting lesson plans for our students, and being involved as business owners. There's always a good, better, best. So, you know, pick the best things that need to get done, focus your time there, and you're gonna always have things to do. If you think I've got it together, I don't. I just focus on what I can do, and that can make the most impact. Keep checklists, lots of checklists.

Jacqueline: Good, better, best. I love that. That's awesome.

Marie: Awesome.

Jacqueline: So our topic, let's just dive right into our topic. The original reason we connected is I saw that you had a post online about a crash course you do for parents of your piano students. From there, we got to discussing student retention, which is going to be the focus of our discussion today.

Jacqueline: So why should teachers care about student retention? It seems like a silly question, but we know that it's more cost-effective to keep a student than to replace them with a new one.

Marie: Absolutely. And before we jump into this, I'm just gonna throw a plug here for group opportunities because we'll talk about that a lot through this podcast today. I am a group-only teacher, but there are ways for a private teacher to bring group opportunities into your studio. You don't need to convert totally to group like what I've done. But what we'll talk about today is retention. I really believe that at the heart of retention is involving the group and getting students to have community-building experiences where they're together. We all know as business owners how much time it takes to onboard a new student. You've got all those conversations via email and phone calls as parents are researching. Are we a good fit? Come in for a trial class, that type of thing. Yes, they want to take lessons from you, and then the onboarding to get invoices ready to go, get their music books, their lesson notebooks. All of that takes time. If we're building studios, those of us that are still trying to bring in students into our studios, then we're spending extra time and money marketing and replying to social media posts and trying to get people in the doors to our studio. So all of that takes time. Once you've got an awesome piano family that gets into your studio, we want to hold on to them because our time is money. We've already trained the parents how to practice with their child at home, what our expectations are, here's our curriculum, and here are all the events that we have going on. Once you do all of that training with parents and students, they're pretty set to keep going on their own. I mean, of course, we want to still nurture, and we're gonna talk about that today as well, continuing to nurture. But we don't have all of the time and money that it takes to bring a student in. So, of course, the less time we can spend onboarding new students, the more time we can spend on nurturing the ones that we already have in our studio and build the studios. Let's face it, those are the students that we want in our studios because it makes teaching exciting and fun for us as well because we're all about making things meaningful. But it's important to us that we have job satisfaction, which we already do. But let's create it in a way where we can focus on those students that are already in our studios.

Jacqueline: Awesome. Yeah, I think that's really well said because when you're a brand new music teacher and you have, you know, you just you're churning through students so often at that early stage, and I think it's so rewarding to move from that point where you have just all of these new faces on a weekly monthly basis that don't necessarily stick around for very long. And then, you know, you shift gradually over time, and then you realize, oh, wow! I've seen these people for six years. I've seen these people for five years. Most of my students have been with me for more than a year, and that's such a rewarding experience. And like you said, it's so much less to do because they already know how to practice, and they have a good instrument. They're on time. They know your policies, all of that stuff. I think that that is absolutely a great point. Plus, if you are wondering as a teacher, how many like, how do I get to that max point, right? There's a formula where you multiply the number of months you keep a student on average by the number of new students you get on a month on average, and that's your high point. So if you get three students, you keep them for eight months, you're probably going to peak around 24. So we want to get that number of months that they stick around as high as possible.

Marie: Right, right. I know, and then you can kind of, and there's nothing wrong with running a business. I don't particularly like that stuff, the business side. I would rather be teaching. So for me, if I can retain a student longer, I get to focus on the fun stuff that I want to teach and the curriculum and the technique. And we can really get into that rather than have you paid your invoice? Oh, you know, have you practiced? That type of thing which is not. I can't say it's particularly fun for me, either.

Jacqueline: Absolutely. So you have a whole range of strategies about retention, increasing student retention. And, as you mentioned earlier, you said, a lot of that has to do with the group nature of your studio and that community. So do you want to dive into all of those topics?

Marie: Yeah, we could do that. Just jump in where you've got questions, too. I have presented on this at MTNA because this really, like I mentioned before, you don't have to be a group teacher to incorporate these types of activities. You're gonna have to get a little creative as a private studio to make those opportunities happen, but they are possible. I've read this before. This is not my quote at all, but somebody said that we piano teachers can learn a lot from marching bands because if you look at and they call themselves marching band geeks. And if you look at these kids that do marching band, they stick with it for the four years in high school. And why is that? It's not because of the instrument. It really isn't. It's because they're making friends. This is their circle of friends. This is a team that they compete with. And they're working toward one amazing goal. And so I think if we can look at that example as music teachers. How do I incorporate those kinds of experiences? How can I bring that marching band, that team dance team? My daughter was on a dance team, and they're 30 years old. They're still friends. How do we bring that team atmosphere, that team feeling, that feeling of I don't want to give this up? This is my circle of friends. How do we bring that into our studios? And I think it is really by offering those community-building events opportunities in your studio.

Marie: Just because we all want to belong. Even as adults, we want to belong to something special. And that's something that we can offer piano students. Remember, piano is kind of a solitary instrument. The child comes in, it's you and the student, and we're fun. Let's face it. We're fun teachers, but we're not peers. Right? So if we can get them in with their friends and their peers, and they do. They feel like they belong to somebody. They feel valued in what they're doing. Learning an instrument is valuable, and it offers something more than just that weekly time coming in and leaving and going home and practicing. On a side note, just as an example, I had a group of high school seniors. They happened to be all girls. I don't group my classes by boys and girls, but I had three or four girls last year graduating from high school, and they were at the top of their class like valedictorian, salutatorian, doing amazing things in their schools and getting scholarships and all this. And I said, what do you want to do with piano? Do you want to go private? They're like, oh, no, absolutely not. We want to stay with our group. And then they basically said, we don't have a lot of time to practice, which we agreed. There's not a lot of time to practice, but they're like, do not cancel our class. Let us come. We want to stay with each other. And so they would come, and it was an agreement. Their parents were fine with it. They would come once a week, and we would play ensembles. There was still learning going on, but they did not want to give up their team. They've been together for 11 years, and this was their team. They didn't want to give that up. And they are all scattered all over the nation right now at different schools, but they stay in touch. And so that is just the power of a group when they have those friendships that are building those friendships. So let's talk about some strategy. I know. Let's talk about some community ways of building community or offering events where you can bring kids together in your studios and feel free to adapt these to however it fits in your studio or throw it out. But here's a few ideas. So I offer a lot of performance opportunities in our school. So a lot of chances for kids to get together and perform. I know when I was growing up it was an end of the year recital, and that's all we did. That's traditional, and that's a nice thing. But how about some performances maybe at a senior home? How about a once a month performance class where kids get together and play for each other? You do some theory games. I know a lot of teachers that do that, but where they're still performing. But it's in a low-key environment just for each other. So performance classes. We get involved with our MTNA, so here's a plug for MTNA. Our local association offers a lot of opportunities. They do like a play-a-thon down at the mall for the holidays, and they used to do a Halloween recital, a Sonatina festival. Just get involved with your local association and see what they offer. Maybe your local music store offers some things, or they would be willing to open up their concert hall for a Halloween recital where kids could get together even from other studios. Not just your studio, but bringing in kids from other studios as well to participate in that. My studio also participates in the National Federation of Music Clubs Solo and Ensemble Festival, and I can send you links. We can post those in the blog. This is a national program. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's not competitive. It's a festival. But students, there's like a solo and ensemble. Even solo festivals get the kids to get in front of judges, and they play for ratings and feedback. They can get to meet other kids at that festival. Ensemble festival is a lot of fun because they are teams on stage performing on five grand pianos and performing for a big audience in a theater, which is a lot of fun. They get to see other students from other studios participate in that. The nice thing about Federation, I think, is because students are working toward gold cups. If they receive a superior rating from the judges, they receive five points. But in order to get their first gold cup, they have to earn 15 points. So automatically, there's three years that you're hoping they stick with your studio because they want that trophy. So there's kind of automatic retention built in because you've got something they're working toward. I like to compare it to karate belts in martial arts. You're giving them some place to go. What's next? What's next? What do I want to be involved in next now? Rather than just, oh, here's what we do. We do a spring recital, and that's it. But what can you give me? A lot of kids are hungry for what's next, and what can I work toward? That validates you as a teacher when you have something like this that's outside of your studio. I think it really brings value to your studio when you're involved in outside events, like your local music teachers association or the Federation.

Marie: I don't know if you are familiar with the 30 Piece Challenge. Is that familiar? Have you?

Jacqueline: Yeah, I think this is something that we've heard. Haven't you done this, Arianne, the 30 Piece Challenge?

Arianne: Honestly, I can't say I have, but it sounds interesting. What is it about?

Marie: Okay, I can link to this one, too. This was not my idea either. It's just something that I saw on Wendy Stevens' site ComposeCreate. It's something that she's come up with. It's basically tracking pieces that your student plays really well and keeping them on a sheet. We do this for a whole year. So I'll do like June 1st to May 31st. It's 30 pieces. There's also a 40 Piece Challenge. But tracking the pieces that students in my studio play. I say it doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be pretty darn good. It needs to be something that you would play for your friends and not be embarrassed about. Not your family, because your family loves you no matter what you play. Your peers would enjoy this, and you would not be embarrassed to play this. We're tracking repertoire. On a side note, if my parents, because I'm in a group, if my parents want to know how their child is doing, I'll be like, hey, check their 30 Piece Challenge sheet. Let's see how they're doing. How many pieces have they passed off? That means they're practicing. That means they're progressing in classes, too. But I offer a trophy if my students have 30 pieces in a year that they can pass off. They can play really well. I've just recently started doing kind of interim prizes at 5, 10, 15, 20, 25. So smaller prizes just to keep the interest in there because 30 pieces, that is a lot. That's a lot of music, especially for little ones. They have to work from the very beginning. This isn't something they can decide on May 1st that they're gonna learn 30 pieces and pass them off by May 31st. It is something that they have to work on the entire year.

Jacqueline: Can we back up for a moment, Marie?

Marie: Yeah, absolutely.

Jacqueline: I wanted to back up when we were talking about the community, and you were talking about the group opportunities and then the performance classes. I wanted to briefly talk about how you mentioned that piano is so lonely, right? And I think that it has the opportunity to be so lonely, and that's so sad. For me, I didn't make a friend that played the piano, another pianist friend, until college, right?

Marie: Wow!

Jacqueline: Which is really sad because it's the only musical instrument where that really is a reality because of classical training and how solo repertoire is so emphasized compared to band, orchestra, choir, just jamming with your friends. I was curious if the performance opportunities are something that you have a stable schedule for, or is it every May that you go to a nursing home? Or is this something that is pretty dynamic and changing in your studio?

Marie: That's a great question. I do like to. As things pop up, I'm not one of those that schedules for the year. Let me back up. I schedule for the year because there are set events in our local music teachers association that I know are happening year after year. They're pretty consistent. But if something pops up, Jacqueline, I'm all over. Let's go play. Like, oh my gosh! Was it two years ago, anyway, the Ukraine, the breakout of the Ukraine war. My students were talking about it, and they were like, what could we do for these people? So we decided, we're gonna have a concert. We're gonna do a play-a-thon and raise money for the World Food Kitchen. That was these food trucks over in Ukraine. I just forgot his name, but I can link to this. Anyway, he's actually from Las Vegas. He's got a cool restaurant in Vegas and Spain. But the kids were like, we gotta do something for these people. How do we help these people? It's like, this is what we do. We're gonna do a play for Ukraine. We did a concert. We did a sight-reading challenge and did yellow and blue strips and big chains as they were passing off playing pieces, sight-reading pieces. That was one of those things that was dynamic, Jacqueline. So we could bring that one in and do that as well. But set performances, I know that my music teachers association always has their play-a-thon at the mall in December, always early December. I know that solo festivals in March. I know the ensemble festivals in October. We have a Sonatina festival in February. The nursing homes, the senior tours, we're finally getting back into that because we couldn't do that with COVID for quite a while. So what I do, we call it actually our Bringing Smiles Tour. So we're taking the kids on tour. We're bringing smiles, and we go during the summer because the nursing homes are filled to the brim with performances in December. They've got plenty of that, but nobody comes in summer. Summer is also a time where things are a little low-key. There's no competitions, no festivals going on. That's also, I'll just plug this one, this is also a way that I can keep my kids during the summer playing so they can do those performances. That one's really meaningful because they're going in and doing something for somebody that can't get out and see a musical performance. They're sharing their gifts. When we go in and do those nursing home tours, we have the kids perform, and then the kids go in and they beforehand make handmade cards that they pass out to the residents. The residents love that. If the nursing home will let us bring treats, we bring in cookies or something. They all love that. Then I bring in my chimes, and we do some music making together with the residents and the students. We get the students to mingle, and that sometimes is a hard thing, mingling with an older person, learning how to go in. So I do prep the kids ahead of time. Here's what to expect. Here's some things you can ask this person. It's meaningful. That's actually one of my retention strategies, too, is to provide community service opportunities because we feel good when we're helping other people. If you can show that the fact that you play an instrument brings joy to somebody else, that's a good feeling. We stick around when we feel good. If a teacher is providing those opportunities, we want to be involved in good things, and parents want their kids involved in good things and to pull themselves out of themselves and focus on what can you do for somebody else. It shows value in that instrument, that beautiful music that you're learning, that somebody else appreciates that.

Jacqueline: Did you have to?

Marie: Did I answer that?

Jacqueline: I'm not even sure I remember what the question was.

Marie: Okay, we were talking about performance opportunities.

Jacqueline: Things you had to have answered my question.

Marie: Performance.

Jacqueline: Summer strategies. You touched briefly on doing those performances. The Bringing Smiles on Tour, is that what it was?

Marie: Aha, yeah. Bringing Smiles.

Jacqueline: Arianne and I have discussed on our podcast about how the year has almost like a rhythm and a feel to it and a flow, and how the summer is such a contentious, I mean, so contentious for some teachers. Some teachers completely change the structure of their studio around. I know people that charge less for summer lessons because they are so, I don't know if desperate is too much, but they are so hell-bent on keeping students during that period. Do you have strategies other than the Bringing Smiles on Tour that you feel like are things that people can do in the summer?

Marie: Yeah, that's a great idea. Actually, my studio policy is we are a year-round school. You are too? Okay.

Jacqueline: The way it is for you too, Arianne?

Marie: Yeah.

Jacqueline: Is it that way for you, Arianne?

Arianne: Sorry? What was the question?

Jacqueline: Are you a year-round studio? Do you do?

Arianne: Oh, yeah.

Jacqueline: Differently.

Arianne: Definitely. The only way in which we might treat summer differently is occasionally there'll be more opportunities for workshops, things like that during the summer. Even things like fiddle camps, because I'm also a violin teacher. But other than that, it's pretty much the same year-round.

Jacqueline: Yeah, because the kids have more time in summer, and parents are often looking for other things to put their children into, like summer camps and stuff. Anyway, what are some of those summer strategies, Marie?

Marie: Well, first of all, like what you guys do, we are a year-round studio. There aren't choices, and if you would like to continue to take from my studio, we attend year-round. I do abbreviate my schedule. I think I only do eight classes during June through August. So I call that our summer, even though the kids are going into school a lot of times in August. But we're a year-round school, and so if I have offered all these cool opportunities, the kids don't want to miss out. They don't want to drop. They lose their spot. So they want to stay with our studio. So there's another reason why, just to provide these opportunities that nobody wants to leave your studio. First of all, they will do whatever it takes to stay. We all know kids lose too much if you go two, three months without piano. You're playing catch-up for two, three months. It's a waste of parents' money and time. So I firmly believe and do something during the summer. I don't want to reinvent. I'm not a camp girl at all. That's a lot of work. But some people, that's a great way to get new students in the door, and I'm all for it if that works for you. I'm in a good place, so I don't need to pull kids in. But camps are a great way of bringing new friends. Invite a friend into a bucket drumming camp or explore musical stem. There's a lot of fun things that you can do with a camp. But our summer opportunities are the nursing home tours. I mentioned the Federation Ensemble Festival, and that is in October, early October for us. So we're starting in June. We're starting on our ensemble festival pieces. So the kids have to learn team pieces. This is such a big deal in our studio with the kids getting on stage in their teams and getting their feedback and rating and points from the judges that they don't want to give that one up too. So we call it teams. We straight up call it a team, and you're getting your ensemble pieces ready. I have a few families that travel overseas, like they are gone the entire summer, but I'll do some makeup class options before they leave, some private lessons with some of my college girls. We've even done Zoom. So I'll do a Zoom lesson with you to keep you going if you really want to do that ensemble festival. So ensemble festival's a biggie, that's probably my biggie for keeping students in the summer and other the fact that they lose their spot. We're pretty full. So it's hard to get into our school right now. So they just know that they'll lose their spot. So that's a motivator too. I don't want to be threatening. I just want to be like, hey, here's what you're missing out on.

Jacqueline: Yeah, it's the reality. I mean, people, you know, they're like, because I have the same policy that you do that if you're gonna be gone for a month and you don't want to pay, well, then unfortunately, then, you know, that spot, I need to fill it with someone else. There's no shortage of people looking to fill those. Someone's like, yeah, five o'clock on a Tuesday. And they're like, is this like a popular time? Or do you think this will be here in two and a half months? And it's like, no, absolutely not. Now your talk, one of your talks was titled the FOMO, fear of missing out, right? And that seems to be a big theme of what you're doing, that you offer these opportunities, and also the group nature of your studio lends itself really well to having that feeling that others are relying on you, right? Others are relying on you. So you have to be there to support and contribute to your friends and your team. I believe I saw you mention earlier that were you always a group-only teacher?

Marie: You know what? No, I was private. I have been doing this about 20 years. So I started group before group was popular. I started group when I had to like, totally sell myself. And when I lost, I lost 40% of my students when I converted. This was 20 years ago. This is not a popular thing. But in Las Vegas, and they probably in a lot of other areas, I had a waiting list that was so long because we don't have enough teachers for the students that want to take. And I just felt bad all the time. Somebody's like, well, put me on your waiting list, and I was like, you'll never get in with me. There's just no way. And a friend, actually a piano parent, mom said, hey, my sister's doing this group piano thing. She's in Idaho. Take a look. And I looked at that, and I went, oh, this is the answer. And this is how I can impact more students. I can get more students in my studio, and let's face it, the money is great. The time involved is more. You just have to know that you're putting in more time. But I didn't do it for the money initially. I did it because I could. I could impact more students, and so I could bring more students in the door. But 20 years ago, I had to sell that, and I had to bring parents. And I started out, of course, as a private teacher like all of you. And when I realized I wanted to do this, I started those performance classes, which we talked about at the beginning. And I just said the last lesson of every month, we're gonna come in, and we're gonna do performance classes. And they would come in for an hour, hour and a half, and we do some theory games, little improvisation, and they perform for each other. And I did that for about six months. So parents could just see what is a group like. And so I could see too. Do I like this? Is this something I can do? Is it something I enjoy doing? And I loved it. And I went, this is the way I need to go with my studio, and I'm just gonna go for it. So I moved into a new house. Timing worked out beautiful, and I had a dining room where I could put six pianos or digital keyboards. And it's like, this is the time to do it. But yeah, I took a cut. I lost about 40% of my students because parents were like, group piano, we don't do that. I don't know what that is. That's not a thing. Thank heavens, it's like a thing now. It's a popular thing. A lot of teachers are doing it. And there's a way, if you have space, you have a way of bringing in some type of a group opportunity. You don't need to convert all the way like what I did. But maybe you create an ensemble team, or you go back and you do those performance classes. But there's ways of adding value to your studio or bringing in some more group opportunities and maybe making even some more money because those are treasured opportunities. If you've got the space for it, and it's something that you want to do. But yeah, I've been doing this about 20 years. It's popular now. You don't have to sell parents on it. You just be like, this is what we do. And they're like, okay, let's try it.

Arianne: Wow! That's really amazing and very encouraging for any of us who would like to try to get into group teaching, especially independently as individual teachers. I have done group teaching before, but as an employee of a larger school. So when you mentioned that you're able to craft that environment in your home, I thought, oh, I didn't even that didn't even register as a possibility for me. But that could be a really cool thing because there's something about going to your piano teacher's home that makes the learning just feel so much more genuine, authentic. It's a sense of place. It's special. And I guess a follow-up question would be nowadays, now that you've refined this practice of group teaching and that is your thing and something that a lot of other teachers are getting into. For you personally, I would ask how much of the repertoire that you teach is ensemble repertoire versus solo, if there's any solo repertoire at all.

Marie: That is a great question. I teach a lot of solo repertoire just as part of our curriculum. So yes, I have a ton of solo curriculum. And I don't want to say that I teach a group class like I would teach a private, but I'm using the same material if that makes sense. So I'm using a method book and we're using, we're learning method book pieces. My older students, more advanced, are learning sonatinas. We're doing classical music. We're doing the same stuff I would do with a private student because I believe. And there's repertoire that these kids need to learn, and it does. But it doesn't matter if it's a private situation or a group, but they need to learn these pieces. These are pieces that will build their skills. And they need to be introduced to the great classical music that's out there as well. So what I do is I just take a method book piece or my solo pieces and make them. I teach them in a group format. So there's techniques of teaching solo repertoire in a group. So just because you teach group classes doesn't mean you can only teach ensembles. Teaching ensembles is actually tricky. That takes a little more practice to teach. But that is part of it. We're little ensembles. I do buy a lot of, if there's repertoire like solo repertoire that has teacher duets. I love it when teachers do that because that already, you know, you can take a beginning little song, CTE, and add a beautiful duet, and students are playing an ensemble even with you. You're creating that in your environment with just the teacher and the student. But then the student is starting to learn to listen already because those skills, you know how important those skills are. Those listening skills, just being able to play with somebody because hopefully, you hope your student might end up in a jazz band, or they might, you want them to be able to accompany a singer or a string player. And those are skills that you can do right there in your private class if you're playing with those duets, those accompaniments, too. So I think those are super helpful. But yeah, I'm happy to share what I do, but it's a lot of solo repertoire that I just teach using group teaching techniques.

Arianne: Good to know. Yeah, when I was in the master of appeal program for piano pedagogy at Cal State Fullerton, they actually had the pedagogy students do an entire semester course on how to teach group lessons. But I think the focus was on how to teach group classes at maybe the community college level for students who wanted to get some piano coursework in or even recreational music-making group classes. So I wasn't sure if it would be the same. But yeah, actually, the focus of that class, too, was on teaching the same kinds of things that you would encounter just teaching a private student. So that's interesting that you do the same thing. And it's encouraging, too, because if it were only ensemble repertoire, I feel like I would run out of repertoire so fast.

Marie: Well, and you're not making a well-rounded student, are we? So our goal, even though my kids are coming for 45 minutes and it's fun, I am very serious about what we're teaching. They're learning scales. They're learning classical music. We do music theory. We're doing everything that I would teach in a 30-minute private lesson, but it's in a group format. They want to come back because it's fun. Like today, I'm doing some rhythm skills, and we're gonna do bucket drumming. So we're gonna learn rhythms, but we're gonna do it with some bucket drumming in classes. Just different ways that you can bring in the same music theory, but approach it maybe a little more creatively, or just in a different way that resonates with learning styles, too. So a lot of that is just trial and error. You can do that in your classes, too. Get a bucket and some drumsticks, and you're good.

Arianne: Nice.

Jacqueline: We've talked before about how, when you try something new, it can be intimidating, and you can feel like you have to dive entirely into that thing. But for group teaching, there's ways of approaching that. I've done group workshops for four years, right? And it's such a big hit with parents on the phone when you tell them that, you know, your student might get your time, might get two performance opportunities, two workshops, two recitals a year. The fact that we have a monthly workshop gives them an additional 12. So going from two to 14 performance opportunities a year is just, I mean, the math is incredible. I was wondering if we could spend some time talking about your piano parent crash course because I feel like a limited-time opportunity for teachers that are listening with a potential student base that already exists might be a good way for them to dip their toes into teaching more than one student at a time.

Marie: Yeah, this came about a couple years ago when I started to have parents come in, and they want to know, okay, what's this note, and how many beats is that, and what's this letter? I'm trying to help my student home. I was like, these parents are so engaged. I need to respect that and celebrate that and help them, too. But I have a five-minute window in between my classes. There's not a lot of time to go over that, too. So this just popped into my head. And actually, it's been so popular that I'm glad you asked about it. I'm actually presenting a full session on this at our Group Illuminated Conference that starts June 1st. Sharing my actual lesson plans, templates to come up with your own course and marketing materials. But I went, what can I do to help out these parents? And I thought, they're interested in learning. They really want to learn piano. And they kept saying, I don't know anything about piano. It's like, you can. And you know what, it's kind of incredible what you can do in four weeks. So this is a four-week crash course for parents. So I advertised this with my studio. I said, come, learn what your students are learning. Learn these basics so you can help your child at home. We parents want to help our children at home. We have this love for them that we want them to be successful. And that's what the parents do, right? We jump in and we're like, how can I help? And in the meantime, they're learning these basic skills themselves. And I'll just tell you what, after I run these courses, I always have a few parents that want to stay and do piano classes themselves. So that was not my intention at all, to teach adult classes. But I had enough say, this is fun. I want to do some more of this. And so that was a way for me to build up adult group classes later in the evenings when I couldn't teach. Not that I couldn't, but you know, there's a time where it's too late for little kids to come for piano, too. So I set up this four-week crash course, and it's 45 minutes. Now I have a group studio. I have eight pianos that I would have the parents come learn together. But if you're an individual teacher and you want to do this one-on-one, it still works. There's ways to make this one work. Or if you've got a couple of pianos like Jacqueline, I see a couple of pianos there. You could have a couple of people at once, or you could have them sharing a piano, too. So there are ways of making this one work where it doesn't have to be one-on-one. And that whole community interaction thing is golden for adults, if nothing more than just provides them another person to go, oh, they're struggling, too. And to laugh with when something doesn't go right, and to not be like, oh, you're the teacher. You know, you know all. And to have somebody else that's in their same place is kind of reassuring, I think, too. So I basically started out with, what if I only have four weeks, which is all I have with these parents? What would I want them to know to help their children? What are some of the most common questions or the things that I see from beginner parents as from beginner students? When they come in, my curriculum would talk a lot about keyboard geography. I would start out with that. Where are the letters on the keyboard? Rhythms, basic rhythms, finger numbers. I bring a little bit of that one into bench position, a little bit of real basic technique. Just, you know, how to sit at the piano, where to sit at the piano, so that we don't have their kids up here with their little T-Rex arms at home. And the parents need to recognize that. I want them to recognize that as well. If there's time, and you've got to just kind of go with the flow, see how the adult does it. I bring in a little bit of beginner staff note reading, maybe in C position, so they learn a few treble staff notes. And I jump into some chording, just with fifths, white key fifths that make it easy. So they could maybe do some lead sheet accompaniment or accompany with their students. Because I feel like chording is one of those things I didn't learn until I was way down the road. And I feel like that just makes you, you know, the village musician. If you can play chords and read sheets and recognize chords sooner rather than later, that's super important. So if I have time, I'll bring that one in. But I would go with the flow of the class. But even if I did not get to staff note reading, I've considered that a success if they knew where keys were, where the letters were on the keyboard, and they could read basic rhythms, and then also play an ensemble. So they need to understand. And that was funny because a lot of the parents would be like, oh, this is harder than I thought to play with you. And I can follow, right? So I can slow down if they slow down. But these kids, my group kids get recordings. They need to practice with the recordings. The recording doesn't slow down. So you're forced to keep going. And isn't that a performance skill that we want? All of us need to be able to just perform and keep going. You make a mistake, you keep going. And that I feel like is a life skill because we have to keep going in all sorts of areas of our lives, too. But the parents didn't realize how hard that was for their student to play with somebody else and develop those skills. So it gives us a chance to talk about what's your student going through. And they're a lot more empathetic because they're experiencing what their children are going through, too. So yeah, that's been a cool thing. But that really just evolved from a few parents that were interested. And it's like, how can I? How can I reach out to these parents? It wasn't even like a money maker. I was just like, how can I help these parents? But I'll tell you what. I did not offer this for free because parents want to help their child and they're willing to pay for it. I didn't charge a fortune because they're already paying me money for their students to be there. But it's my time. And I need to be. And teachers, you need to be rewarded for your time. And another thing, and I know you've got to be invested. And paying a little bit of money gets you invested. So if you do something for free, a parent might show up. They might not. Oh, I got busy. I didn't come. I didn't pay anything, so I'm not going to show up. Well, that's your time. And there was a spot, and you had a spot saved for that person, and they didn't show up. So I think for your own sanity, you need to charge something.

Jacqueline: It also makes us more invested. It also.

Marie: Yeah.

Jacqueline: Or investment, right? Because if we're doing something for free, then we're not going to be as invested in it. So if we're being paid for it, our time, we're going to do more, and we're going to feel like we are being more well appreciated, right?

Marie: Yeah. And you're held accountable, too. Right? Because somebody's paying you. That's a good point. Yeah, I didn't even think about that, Jacqueline. Yeah, that's good on the teacher side as well, too. So you're worth something. Charge for that.

Jacqueline: Right. Yeah.

Marie: Parents are happy to pay it. And the fact that this helps retention, too. Because parents now understand, this is what my child feels like. This is what it. Yeah, this is what it feels like. We all should be a student of something, don't you think? Because we understand what it feels like to be a beginner at something. And these parents, every one of these parents that cared enough to come in and take this class, these are some of my best students because now they're helping their kids. They know how to help their kids with practice. If nothing else, they know what it feels like to be a student and to come into a class and be accountable for your last week of practicing. How did you do that? I feel like that's a huge retention tool because you're training parents to train their kids to be successful at home. And those are the golden families, right, that we all want to teach.

Jacqueline: Absolutely. Yeah. So I have two pianos there, and I have a digital behind the camera right now. If I wanted to start with this, you know, what would be the or another teacher in a position like me, maybe they have a grand and a digital piano if they. Pianos. What would be the most basic version of this crash course that they could offer instead of maybe a group? It's a partner, two adults.

Marie: Yeah.

Jacqueline: I mean, they, and that also means they only need two people to agree on a time.

Marie: Yeah, which is easy to do. Right? And you could even do that in a half an hour. It might not even need to be 45 minutes. I do 45 minutes because that's a good time for my kids before they're like, I don't want to be here anymore. So they're like, oh, we're over. We're done. That's great. So 45 minutes works out good. But you do whatever time works for you. I, personally, I think you need to sit down and figure out what's important for these kids to learn. You know your philosophy. You know what you're teaching your beginners right there. Like I mentioned before, keyboard geography, I feel like that is the basis. If a beginner knows their keyboard geography and their rhythms, they can really tackle so much. But sometimes I'll get transfer kids come in where they were taught by finger number first, but don't know where their letters are. I just feel like if I can pull kids back, and they know where all the D's are on the piano, and all the G's are, that makes reading staff notes so much easier, too. So personally, that would be my approach, like I mentioned. That's where I would start. But if there's a different philosophy, maybe you're a Suzuki teacher, and you need to teach some of the basics of the intro Suzuki courses. So my suggestion would be, pick what you're already teaching in your private students. Pick a method that you believe in, and you're comfortable teaching, and teach the highlights from that. That's what I would do. Don't make up something new. Teach what you're comfortable with, but decide what are the minimums that I need to get across in four weeks. Or maybe you want to make it a six-week course. Whatever you think you can fit in that is going to make it impactful for your parent and for your student. But yeah, you don't need to reinvent something. Teach what you're comfortable teaching. I mean, I have plenty of recommendations. But yeah, I just feel like same thing back to that time issue with, do we have time to learn a new method? Well, maybe, maybe not. But I'm comfortable with this. I really like this approach. Let me go with this. And the benefit is, that's what the student's playing at home, too. So it'll be familiar. So your parents, when they say, oh, yeah.

Jacqueline: Cool. Let's talk about a couple other things that you do that are particularly interesting. You've mentioned that you use older teenage students that perhaps they're a little bit further along than their younger counterparts, and you actually take them in, and you use them as teaching assistants or mentors. Can you talk a little bit about that? How that works?

Marie: Yeah, first of all, in a group class of eight five-year-olds, it is nuts. So I need help.

Arianne: Wow!

Jacqueline: An event. Wow!

Marie: Yeah, I've got room for eight digital pianos. So I can have up to eight students in a class, too. I honestly don't know how. I do not know how public school teachers teach 28, 32. The whole idea is mind-boggling. But I'm not making this up. I cannot teach these little people classes, these large classes of eight little people without an assistant. So these teaching assistants are a big part, a huge part of why I can teach. If I didn't have them, I'd have to cut down to maybe four where I can manage it a little bit easier, too. So they're absolutely needed in our studio. And it's a paid job. So I pay these students to come in and assist. So a lot of times, I am their first job experience. And I encourage them to put this on your resume. Put this on your scholarship. I am the one every year filling out college applications for these students and writing reference letters for these kids that have worked for me. But they are teen assistants. And I remind them, this is another, another going back to the value of what they're learning and teaching, that this is valuable, what you're doing, that you can benefit other people. But here you can benefit yourself. It's a job. I tell them, I can't just go outside the door and grab anybody up the street and bring them in to assist this class. It has to be somebody that knows rhythms, that can sight-read because a lot of times, these kids, they need to have played long enough with me that they can play the teacher duets with the students as well. So those are extra pieces that they need to be able to jump in and play with me. They need to definitely be able to sight-read whatever the class is learning, too, so they can understand immediately if they can see a child that's using the wrong finger numbers or the wrong counting. And I have them kind of going around the room with me to point out, so they're getting a little bit of individual attention. A lot of times, group teachers get used to just listening really good. And you can tell who's off and who needs help. But I'll have an assistant and I kind of circling the room while we play. So they're doing kind of mini tutoring, and they need to be able to figure that out right away. Oh, this is what needs to be fixed right there. So they need to be really secure in their own skills. So yeah, that's, I want to say teen assistants, but I've hired some kids as young as age 10 or 11 because they were capable.

Jacqueline: Wow!

Marie: Yeah. And if they're capable and they're mature, and you've got to be responsible. And you've got to have the parent willing to bring them in at a separate time to come teach their class, too. But so it's not necessarily teens because I have some teens that don't practice. That would be horrible assistants. But I have some 11-year-olds that are awesome. Honestly, these younger kids, they want to please so bad, and they want this job so bad. Sometimes they're even better assistants than the teens, too. So I'm just gonna throw that one out there, too. They've been some of my best ones. But yeah, they'll come in. Other things, like I do a little ticket system. They'll pass out the tickets where the kids are saving up for prizes, passing out the pencils, distributing the hand sanitizer, wiping down the pianos. Other things like that, that way I can talk to a parent and don't have to worry about some of those admin tasks as well. They're basically, they're tutors. So I would call them tutors.

Jacqueline: And we go back to the beginning. How did that start? How did you? Did you try and fail to teach a large group of children, and you're like, what do I?

Marie: Yeah, I was like, this is crazy. I can't do this. And so I thought, okay, you know what? Then I'll only teach four. And you know what? Sometimes it just depends on the group. You could have, and I don't want to say they're good groups because I love the energy of a group. I love the energy of eight little six-year-old crazy boys because they're energetic and fun, and it's a fun energy for me, too. But there does need to be some form of classroom control. And honestly, Jacqueline, I don't even remember how this came about. I have been hiring assistants for so long. I think I just got to a point where it's like, I can't do this myself. And there was probably somebody that hired me. Maybe that's where I went to. And I was like, maybe one of my teachers hired me to help, or maybe one of my kids. I just thought, this is a great opportunity for these kids to actually get job experience, too.

Jacqueline: Right. I remember I was a TA for the piano class in high school, and I felt like that was a big part of what pushed me to go towards piano teaching because I.

Marie: Nice.

Jacqueline: This is something that is interesting for me. In the beginning, that was just kind of grading theory tests and whatnot. And then I remember that when she was out sick, the sub would just kind of sit on their phone, and I would be the one who was teaching.

Marie: Doing all the work.

Jacqueline: Doing all the work. Yeah. So I was teaching, and the sub was just getting paid to sit there. I'm sure they didn't appreciate going to the next class without the TA, though having to do their work. But it's fascinating because this isn't a retention strategy, but as those students get older and get more advanced and have other opportunities in life, maybe they start dating or want to pick up a part-time job. Having this opportunity for them, I would imagine it would push them to continue learning in their own studies and also be a reason to stick around, because, well, they're being paid, right?

Marie: Yeah, yeah, it's a job. It's a job. And you know, it's an automatic job. If you're responsible and you're keeping up with your practicing, I will hire you. Honestly, I have had a few parents come to me and say, "Marie, the only reason why my 15-year-old is still with you is because they want that job and they want it bad." And it's like, whatever works, whatever keeps them playing. I have used it too, and I had a few assistants that were not meeting their practice goals. So I used it as a little form of time out. I don't know what you call that, maybe a rep. I said, "Hey, if you're not continuing well, you're not having a lot of time to practice. I better give you a break from your job so you can find some time."

Jacqueline: I thought you assigned someone the job as time out.

Marie: No, I gave them a little time out of it. When you can start getting current with your practice, then we'll bring you back in. And they want that, they want it bad. That is a stipulation. If you're an assistant, you are keeping current with your studies because what use are you in this class if you can't sight-read the music? If your skills aren't progressing, then you're not a help for me in this class. That's part of being an assistant; you need to stay current with your practicing.

Arianne: I remember, too, when I was a group teacher for five and six-year-olds a few years ago, that was a little bit earlier in my piano teaching career. It was so instructive because occasionally you're going to come across students who may not learn certain concepts the way you're used to teaching them. And because it's a group setting, there's a little bit more pressure on the teacher to think on their feet to figure out a solution. So I find that teaching, especially younger children in a group setting, but also older students as well, really gave me as a teacher that creative edge and the ability to think on my feet, to problem-solve creatively.

Marie: Right? Right? I know we call ourselves magicians, right? Eric is like, okay, what can I pull out of my hat? Or how can I restructure this? What we're doing right now, how can I do it a different way? I'm obviously not reaching this group this way. What else can I do? So yeah, you're really a performer, aren't you?

Arianne: Yeah.

Jacqueline: And group dynamics are so fascinating because in my workshops, I have my younger age group. I do three workshops. I do one for my adults, one for my older kids, and then I do one for the young kids. And there's a child in the younger group who is on the older side, and in her private lessons she is fine, and then when she gets into the group, she becomes a bit of an instigator. And because she's on the older side, the other students look to her for cues on how they should act, and it presents a bit of a problem. So I have paired her up with younger students that come in with like a five-year-old, because it's the majority of seven to eleven. But there's this couple of six and five-year-olds. So I've paired up this older girl, ten, and I've given her the responsibility of watching after some of those younger students, making sure that they feel comfortable, helping them out with writing the words down if there's an activity they don't maybe know how to spell. So it's fascinating to see how in those settings you can take an opportunity to provide an educational opportunity to a student while also helping balance the class needs and that kind of stuff.

Jacqueline: We're gonna be wrapping up here soon. But I wanted to talk, lastly, about technology with you, Marie, because so many teachers are so stuck in the past, right? So many teachers are so stuck in the past with the black and white composition line paper, writing down the notes. And you know, COVID was hard for so many. I remember seeing on the local Facebook page someone saying, "I'm offering lessons over the phone for like five dollars." So technology is a big sticking point for a lot of teachers. But you've talked about how it's a big part of your retention strategy.

Marie: It's a huge part, too. This is something I presented on a lot at MTNA. Presenting again at Group Illuminated on technology. First of all, for teachers, this is gonna save you time in the long run with lesson planning, with being organized with communication with parents. So I realize there is a little bit of a learning curve to this. The time that you're gonna save by using some tech tools is going to be remarkable. It's actually going to turn you into a better teacher, maybe even a better person, because you're not spending so much time handwriting this. But you've saved some email templates. Or maybe you've saved your lesson plans in Google Docs. There are ways of using technology to save your time and make your time more productive, too. But for my students, I feel like, first of all, these kids understand technology, they're used to it. It's something that is part of their lives, maybe not something that was part of our lives growing up. But it's something definitely that they respond to. And why not, I guess, my point is, why not? And if a teacher's nervous about it, start with one or two apps. Pick one or two apps that get some recommendations. Maybe you want to do a sight-reading app or note naming, and you learn how to use it really well and try it with a couple of students. And if it's fun and the kids like it and you feel comfortable with it, add another app. But you don't need to sit down and go, "Okay, fill up my phone with apps. iPad. Here's all the things that everybody says is good." Pick one or two things and get comfortable with it yourself.

Marie: I remember the first time when I hooked up my iPad to my big screen TV in class, because that's how I share technology in my classes on a big screen TV. And I practiced. I would go in early, and I would practice. Okay, here's how I do this, and I turn on my iPad, and I do this. Soon it became second nature, and this is just what we do. But you have to get out of your comfort zone and do it, and then you are going to find there are just certain ways of reaching students that you cannot do face to face, but an app is going to make a huge difference in how that child learns. Or you get an app that has those levels like we talked about, where do I go next? And they'll say, "I'll do it. I'll do more of this because I want to get to this next level." And then there's little you have to do. Your student becomes this awesome note reader or sight reader because of a couple of apps that you have introduced to them. And they're a better musician, and you've saved yourself a whole lot of time, and you can dive into the really cool stuff like the technique that they can't do on an app. But if they can read their notes well or their chords, then you can start to incorporate that into your actual lesson time. Some people call that off-bench learning, where you're learning but off the bench. Just giving them something else that they can do at home that's going to build their skills until they see you next.

Marie: I have a whole list of apps. We can talk technology anytime, but if that keeps them engaged and learning, and if a child is comfortable and they're progressing in class, then they stick. They stay around. If they're not progressing and they can't play their pieces, that's not a happy situation for the student, and they don't last. They're not going to stick around and be disappointed every week. And you're disappointed, and they know you're disappointed too. So I really feel like anything technology you can bring in is going to inspire their learning. Even YouTube, just get on YouTube and share a cool performance. Last week, we're talking about John Williams, share an orchestra performance of John Williams playing the Star Wars theme, and like this is our classical composer right now, in the year 2024, John Williams. What does he look like? And that was a learning experience for them too. YouTube's awesome. I'd start with YouTube because there's so many cool things that you.

Jacqueline: And they're all over YouTube, I mean.

Marie: Right, yeah.

Jacqueline: Constantly, do you feel like there's a place where, well, let me start over. Have you heard of the app Flip?

Marie: No, I haven't.

Jacqueline: Flip is a free app that I integrate into my studio. It is set up in a similar way to TikTok-ish, but it is a private group that educators can create and students can join. Then students can submit videos to different topics for different assignments, and they can also respond to one another with messages or videos. So my students have a Flip check-in assignment each week. That means they need to record a video. Sometimes it's about a music theory concept. Sometimes it's a particularly challenging part of their piece, but they have to do that by the halfway point in the week. For example, a student had a syncopated rhythm, and their lessons are on Tuesday, and by Friday they needed to submit that measure, that group of measures, so that I can give them a thumbs up or be like, "Okay, that's not quite right." One of the wonderful things I do with it is when a student really knows the theory concept, I have them create a tutorial video which I then send to students that are going through that concept. For example, someone is talking about how to identify major versus minor. If a student needs a reminder about how to identify major or minor, then instead of me sending a video or recording a video, that's my time. And also I'm the teacher. They can look at a video that their peer has created on the subject.

Marie: That's cool. Okay, that's really cool. I love that. I'll look that one up. I use Practice Space. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I'm a little familiar with that.

Marie: That's similar. Is there interaction between the kids on that?

Jacqueline: Yeah, there is. You can set them up in groups so they can. I know that's another one of my retention strategies, putting them in their group classes. But there's a chat where they can send videos like what you're suggesting back and forth. They can also send it privately to me. Although I encourage them to send it to the group because that is motivation. It's like, "Oh my gosh! My friend got this piece ready. I gotta get this piece ready." So they can share that back and forth. It's also a way of encouraging and congratulating each other. I had a cute thing where one of the girls just got on the chat and said, "What's your favorite color?" And then she made us all these cute little bracelets.

Jacqueline: Oh, that was so cute!

Marie: And it was totally out of the blue. And that's what I'm saying. This is like their friends. This is our group team, but she used the chat to find out something more about her friends, and then she made them a little gift. So I love Practice Space. I don't know if it's the same thing as Flip, but it sounds like it's a lot of the same where it's a communication, but it's private. So it's not out there for everybody to see like on Facebook or Instagram.

Jacqueline: Right.

Marie: Anything like that.

Jacqueline: Cool. So at the end of each of our episodes we typically try to come up with a big takeaway. Arianne, do you want to start with your big takeaway from this episode?

Arianne: Sure my big takeaway would be. I really want to get back into group teaching. I actually have a studio office in uptown Whittier that I teach at, and there's a vacant room right next to mine in the office building where I'm set up. That is a lot larger than the room I'm currently in. So maybe I could inquire about setting up a few keyboards in there and reintroducing group into my regular teaching practice. Another thing that I would like to try is the 30-piece challenge among many of the other things that were suggested here today. So thank you so much.

Marie: Yeah, I'll be sure and share links to that. Hey, I'm excited. Let's get something going.

Jacqueline: Yeah. My big takeaway, I think, is that I do group workshops, and I've done group workshops for over four years now, and that is a form of group teaching that I've become very familiar with. But the group teaching where it's, you know, weekly group lessons is sounds like such a great opportunity for students to get to know one another. And the piano crash course, the crash course for the piano parents, seems like a very approachable way to not only offer something extra this summer but also dip my toes into trying to keep a group of students in the same general place in terms of what they know. And you've talked about how it's kind of self-regulating when there's that group, that there's motivation to not fall terribly far behind. So I think that I'm going to try that.

Marie: Cool, you know, I call it, we talk about peer pressure is a bad thing, but in group piano peer pressure is everything. It's a beautiful thing because kids don't want to fail their teams. They want to show up practiced. And so for the most part, kids will practice. Everybody has a hard week, but they don't want to fall behind, and if they hear somebody in class, I don't have to say a word. If somebody's got their piece ready and they don't quite, they go home, and they get it ready too. There's that motivation to stay right up there with your team, and not to let your team down. There are so many ways, like you said, Jacqueline, of starting group, but bringing in any type of offering into your private studio. I'm not here to say, "Hey, you need to totally convert to group," but I feel like the benefits of any group interaction are just gonna make your studio stronger. Your retention is gonna be better. And you're gonna be the sought-after teacher because you're offering something that not everybody does. There's not one way of offering a group experience. So the Group Illuminated Conference that I'm co-producing, this is our third year of doing it because we found that there was no conference for group piano teachers and it was like we need to offer something because this is a thing. It's popular now. But not everybody. You'll see people that sign up. Some people are just exploring group. Some people have done it for 20 years like I have. Other people are like, what offerings can I bring in and add that make my studio valuable or different, that set me apart. So that's kind of where we've gone, trying to bring in all of the options of ways that you could bring a group environment into your studio. But we've got this year, we got the best of the best. So group teachers, they've got them talking a lot of marketing. I know you guys are big on business. I feel like that's something teachers, we teachers just did not get enough training on business. So how to market, how to market your studio, how to bring, like I said, different ways of bringing group into a private studio already. Ways of converting, if you're ready to convert, you know that sort of thing. But there's ways of converting, ways of working with different age groups. So we've talked about the piano parent crash course, you know, maybe you wanna start with adults like maybe Jacqueline's gonna do. Maybe I only want to do preschools. But we're talking about different levels of students that you could start out with starting with just beginners. Or how do I teach a group of intermediate students too. But there's a lot of places where you can jump in and find your niche. Where does group fit into my studio? This is a group conference created by group teachers. We're all group teachers. This is nobody on the outside doing that. So I'll share a code to get $50 off. I'll share a link. But check out, just check out the presenter lineup. You can see it's not all group teaching techniques. But we're covering theory, actual technique in a group setting, marketing, a lot of those things, just the role of parents. We talked a lot about that too. So a lot of the sessions are gonna be the type of thing that can work somehow into a private studio offering as well.

Jacqueline: Absolutely. So we'll be able to get that code, that link to get $50 off of the Group Illuminated Conference happening in June. You can go to www.definedmusicteacher.com/blog and find the show notes for this episode where you'll be able to get that discount. It was wonderful having you on the podcast today, Marie, you have so many fascinating ideas. I'm sure that people listening will have lots of thoughts after this episode.

Marie: Well, thanks for having me. You've been fun to talk with. I'm excited to see what happens in your groups, your private studios with groups. So let's stay in touch.

Jacqueline: Absolutely.

Arianne: Thank you, Marie.

Marie: Thank you.

Jacqueline: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Piano Pedagogy Podcast, and we will see you again next time.

Arianne: Bye.